Comments on: Identity Politics and Multiculturalism http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/ Everyone has a right to my opinions Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:19:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Matt Munro http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/#comment-83473 Matt Munro Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:57:54 +0000 http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/#comment-83473 The point about the CofE is a good one - we agonise over the integration of minorities whilst our statute still prevents catholics from being prime minister or sitting on the throne. The "meaning" given to ceratin events (e.g empire) will always be debated but I've never understood why that should be an obstacle to their inclusion in a Bristish identity. Many countries have more recent and painfull histories (e.g Germany) but it doesn't seem to stand in the way of a consentual national identity. Like it or not, the CofE would have to be a part of British Identity, in a way that Islam, for example, would not. The point about the CofE is a good one - we agonise over the integration of minorities whilst our statute still prevents catholics from being prime minister or sitting on the throne.
The “meaning” given to ceratin events (e.g empire) will always be debated but I’ve never understood why that should be an obstacle to their inclusion in a Bristish identity. Many countries have more recent and painfull histories (e.g Germany) but it doesn’t seem to stand in the way of a consentual national identity. Like it or not, the CofE would have to be a part of British Identity, in a way that Islam, for example, would not.

]]> By: Robert http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/#comment-81490 Robert Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:27:48 +0000 http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/#comment-81490 Both of these are pertinent points. I don't think domination has ever been the intent of multiculturalism, or indeed the effect (although it might seem that way to some). Nor are the policies meant to absolve any group from criticism. Instead, it the policy as it stands seeks to <em>counter</em> racism towards a minority group. As Matt has often pointed out, these policies are often ineffective, leading to the suppression of criticism, rather than any positive change in attitudes. I think that the distinction between individuals and groups is important, because I'm still not at all sure that groups have rights of their own, independent from individual rights. "Dismantle the manifestation" seems ideal, yet sadly unrealistic, not least because some of the groups - such as The Church of England - are part of the apparatus of The State. Another problem stems from the lack of agreement on exactly what and what is not part of our identity. The arguments over the role of The Empire in our history are a good example of the quicksand we can slip into. Both of these are pertinent points. I don’t think domination has ever been the intent of multiculturalism, or indeed the effect (although it might seem that way to some). Nor are the policies meant to absolve any group from criticism. Instead, it the policy as it stands seeks to counter racism towards a minority group. As Matt has often pointed out, these policies are often ineffective, leading to the suppression of criticism, rather than any positive change in attitudes. I think that the distinction between individuals and groups is important, because I’m still not at all sure that groups have rights of their own, independent from individual rights. “Dismantle the manifestation” seems ideal, yet sadly unrealistic, not least because some of the groups - such as The Church of England - are part of the apparatus of The State.

Another problem stems from the lack of agreement on exactly what and what is not part of our identity. The arguments over the role of The Empire in our history are a good example of the quicksand we can slip into.

]]> By: Matt Munro http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/#comment-81477 Matt Munro Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:58:41 +0000 http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/#comment-81477 I think you've got it the wrong way round. In the US multiculturalism "works" because individuals, not groups, are asked to buy into the National Identity of the country. The whole problem with european muticulturalism is that it expands notions of positive "rights" to the group, rather than the individual. In effect it demands that I unconditionally love all muslims (as a homogenised group) rather than chosing (or not) to have individual muslims as friends. This is the coercive (and deeply racist) aspect of multiculturalism which meets the most resistance and causes the most friction. The solution is to dismantle the manifestation of all groups below national level and give individuals control over their own integration. Notions of cultural supremacy miss the point, which is to create a culture that doesn't belong to any particular group whilst being accesible to all of them. I think you’ve got it the wrong way round. In the US multiculturalism “works” because individuals, not groups, are asked to buy into the National Identity of the country. The whole problem with european muticulturalism is that it expands notions of positive “rights” to the group, rather than the individual. In effect it demands that I unconditionally love all muslims (as a homogenised group) rather than chosing (or not) to have individual muslims as friends. This is the coercive (and deeply racist) aspect of multiculturalism which meets the most resistance and causes the most friction.
The solution is to dismantle the manifestation of all groups below national level and give individuals control over their own integration. Notions of cultural supremacy miss the point, which is to create a culture that doesn’t belong to any particular group whilst being accesible to all of them.

]]> By: jameshigham http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/#comment-79369 jameshigham Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:02:35 +0000 http://www.robertsharp.co.uk/2007/06/15/identity-multiculturalism/#comment-79369 If by multiculturalism is meant the setting up of parallel cultures in a society with a view to outpopulating and eventually dominating that host society, then it indeed needs to be abandoned. If what is meant is the integration of the individual, with all his culture and mores into the existing society, such as it is and the adding to that society and enriching of it, then that is to be encouraged. If by multiculturalism is meant the setting up of parallel cultures in a society with a view to outpopulating and eventually dominating that host society, then it indeed needs to be abandoned. If what is meant is the integration of the individual, with all his culture and mores into the existing society, such as it is and the adding to that society and enriching of it, then that is to be encouraged.

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